Intro:
Welcome to the NSPCC Learning podcast, where we share learning and expertise in child protection from inside and outside of the organisation. We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and share good practice on how we can all work together to keep babies, children and young people safe.
Producer:
Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast. Online technology and the ubiquity of smartphones have transformed the way that children and young people interact with others. This online landscape brings both benefits and risks, and one such risk is online sexual extortion.
Online sexual extortion, also known as sextortion, is a form of online blackmail that involves the threat of sharing nude or semi-nude images or videos to extort money or force someone to do something against their will.
In this podcast episode, recorded in March 2025, we'll be discussing what you can do to protect children from this form of abuse. I'm pleased to be joined by two expert guests to discuss the topic. Marie and Danielle, would you like to introduce yourselves, please?
Danielle Harris:
Sure, my name is Danielle. I'm a Childline Team Manager and I work on our [Childline] Reach programme. So the Reach programme is a programme of work that looks at campaigns and activities to reach children and young people that we know as a service we're less visible to. And our most recent campaign is called Behind the Screen, which looks at reaching boys in terms of online sexual extortion and raising awareness of this.
Marie Smith:
Hey, hi. Thanks for having me. I'm Marie Smith. I oversee the CEOP education programme that's based within the National Crime Agency. We have resources that are run throughout schools for age groups 4 to 18, and a particular key threat of which we're focusing on at moment is what we're calling financially motivated sexual extortion.
Producer:
Fantastic. Thank you both for joining me today. I think that a good place to start is the point on terminology.
So at the NSPCC, we use the term online sexual extortion to refer to the topic we're discussing. You also might know this as sextortion as well. And Marie, as you said, at CEOP, you use the term financially motivated sexual extortion. All of those terms, we'll come across in our discussion today.
Marie, I wonder if you could give us a quick introduction or a definition to what we mean when we say online sexual extortion.
Marie:
Yeah, of course. So we do a number of things at the National Crime Agency. And I guess within the CEOP child protection, child abuse arena, we have separated the sexual extortion — so that's the grooming of young people for sexual gratification — we have that in a separate box, shall we say, for the purposes of reporting and the response, of which we see.
Because the financial element, particularly for children and young people, is relatively new, particularly within the last couple of years, we've slightly sectioned that out because also we need to work with our colleagues across our fraud teams. And because of that financial element there's a bit more crossover with regards to those threats within the National Crime Agency.
So just to be very clear, I guess for us as well, we see young males being predominantly at risk. Not always, but the high majority of young males being at risk of the financial elements, and then I guess the more kind of sexual element we are still seeing a very high proportion of those being young females.
Producer:
Danielle, is that similar to what you're seeing on Childline?
Danielle:
We've used the term sexually coerced extortion but we've also recognised the differences in gender as well, so what Marie was talking about in terms of how boys are specifically more at risk in terms of financially motivated online extortion.
We see that in the counselling room when young people are coming through to us. Boys will talk about the financial element of the extortion and girls will talk more of the sexual extortion that happens. So we are really seeing that in the counselling room and through young people coming to talk to us.
Producer:
A key point as well is that in 2023/24, more than two thirds of Childline counselling sessions about blackmail and threats to share sexual images were with boys. And I'm assuming, Danielle, that's what led to the Reach campaign. Is that correct?
Danielle:
Yeah, so when we started looking at engaging boys, we know that as a service, we speak to less boys in our live contacts. So we wanted to look at the different topics that were issues for boys and what kept coming up in the data, internally and externally, was financially motivated extortion.
So what we found in Childline is when boys do come to talk to a counsellor, they are talking about sexual online extortion and the financial motivated side of it. And also we know from our Report Remove data that significantly more boys are using this. Report Remove is our tool to get nude images or videos removed off the internet. So that was quite interesting and just reflected the issue that was here at present.
Producer:
Yeah. Marie, I wondered from an NCA perspective, why do you think the majority of known victims of the financially motivated sexual extortion are male?
Marie:
Yeah, I think there's a number of hypotheses around why this might be. I guess from our perspective, just a couple of top ones is that we're not just talking about teen males. So I guess we are talking about males more broadly being victims. The majority of reports that are coming through are roughly up to the age of about 30. So we definitely see reports from that point onwards.
However, we're talking about the male population being at risk of this threat. Because we're the Child Protection Department, you know, an arena within the National Crime Agency, we're looking at under-18s specifically — so obviously what we're talking about today. These individuals are being targeted by organised crime groups based abroad. So these are... The whole purpose is that financial element.
Sadly, they would have tested that. So there would've been an element at some point where they would look to see who is more likely to pay. So that would've being tested by these organised crime groups.
I guess part of that [that] we're seeing is predominantly that the young female account is being used. So when they're starting some of those tactics, they're using online profiles pretending to be young, attractive females to, kind of, lure those young boys to their profiles. Or when they are actively asking them to share nude images, they're potentially even sharing images first, pretending it to be that female, so that there's an element of, you know, "I've swapped with you, now can you swap with me?" It can seem a little bit more fun.
Obviously, any teenager around those kind of ages, between the ages of that 13 and 17 age bracket that we're currently looking at, are exploring their sexuality, their curiosity online, relationships online, what that means to them. So it's a really, kind of, particularly vulnerable time.
I mean, there's a much broader discussion around young males and social norms and attitudes. Sometimes young boys can feel maybe a bit forced into doing things culturally that they might not want to do as well, because it's what men do or, you know, it's expected of them. Obviously that's not necessarily the case, or it might be the case in in their environment, so there's something here about talking to those young boys around what their values are online; what they would like to see within a potential relationship; or when things might move particularly quickly online, how does that make them feel? So it's stopping that moment and taking a breather and thinking about what that might look like.
And I guess more broadly, but Danielle will be really, really up on this, is that boys are less likely to report, I guess, any form of crime and particularly sexual abuse more broadly. So it's really picking up on all of those vulnerabilities as some of those options.
Danielle:
We do definitely see a lot of boys coming through talking about this and also, in the respect of things happening quite quickly online. I think some misconceptions around grooming is that it takes a long period of time and actually with this type of abuse it's happening within, I don't know, half an hour in some cases.
I think the scary thing for me is the AI that's involved in terms of the fake profiles; how realistic these profiles are looking. And actually, what Marie was saying as well, we're seeing boys saying that they've shared an image first — the perpetrator has — and it looks real and it's almost a false sense of security in terms of building that relationship.
I think the other thing that's quite interesting is reports of isolation are quite high, which also feeds into this, I would say, in terms of young boys trying to make connections. If they're not making those connections in real life, they're seeking them out online and that just adds additional vulnerabilities for young boys.
Marie:
Yeah. And just to come in there as well, we did some research recently in the buildup to a campaign that we were putting out. So we commissioned some research with over 500 boys and we were seeing that 74% of them didn't understand or didn't see a request for a nude image as a potential attempt, a sextortion attempt. Again, 74% didn't fully understand what sextortion more broadly was, what that would look like, what it means for them. 73% didn't even know where to go to report if it was to happen to them as well.
And I think what was strongly coming through the conversations that we were having is that they didn't really see themselves as victims as well. There was quite lots of victim-blaming language that was being used when talking about these kind of potential scenarios that we were presenting to them as well.
Producer:
And Marie, can I ask you a bit more about the mechanics of the financial extortion? What does that process look like? So say a young person has shared a self-generated image, what happens next?
Marie:
There's a number of ways in which this crime is committed. And I think it needs to be really clear to young boys: this is a crime — these are criminals who are targeting them — and particularly that they [the victims] are not to blame. Therefore, so even if an image has been shared by them first, they have been targeted for this very purpose.
So I think that's a real barrier to reporting as well, is the fact that "well, I've shared an image and therefore have I broken the law?" And that's often what they'll be told by offenders online as well. And why particularly, as the National Crime Agency, we've got lots of materials out and now a campaign out, because we want to be telling young people we are law enforcement and we are telling you, you're not to blame. So if you're going to seek help from law enforcement, that message is being strongly put out across our community and to ensure that's not a barrier to come forward.
Interestingly, what Danielle said there, we are seeing an increase in the use of AI. So that's definitely by, as Danielle said, the offenders using AI to pretend to be, for instance, a young female. But also sadly, there's AI images being generated where a young person hasn't shared an indecent image at all. So what they [the perpetrator] are coming to them is to say, "I have this image of you that I've created. Obviously I know it's fake, but the people I'm going to share it with don't." So it has the same impact. "I'm going to share it with your parents, I'm going to share with your school, I'm going to send it amongst your classmates."
Obviously it's very easy to piece together your communities online and those offline communities and we do see some of these threats being seen through. So I guess previously we would have said "it's a threat" and therefore it might not happen; but actually we do you see cases where those images are shared. So that makes it even harder for young people to seek support because they're potentially seeing some of this happening.
It is very very serious now that we have these individuals contacting teens more broadly, adults as well, with images that they have made, and as Danielle said, they're becoming increasingly more realistic in their approach.
Producer:
Yeah, that really chimes with a quote I read in the NSPCC's Helplines insight briefing on this topic, which draws from contacts we've received to Childline, in which young people share their experiences of online sexual extortion.
Everything's anonymised for the report, of course, but one of the young people featured in that report talks about how someone had produced a fake image of them, and they were really worried that, because it was so realistic, they wouldn't be able to convince people that it wasn't them.
What do professionals need to know about the generative AI aspect of online sexual extortion?
Marie:
I think the really important thing for professionals to know, which we recently ran a study and nearly half of the professionals that we surveyed weren't aware, is that AI generated child abuse material is illegal. And I think there is just that concern [around] what to do with it. And actually what we're saying is you deal with those images in exactly the same way you would any other. So if there is an incident, you report it to the police. You do not share that image.
There is guidance for professionals on what to do and how to respond to instances of nude image sharing that sits on [the UK government website]. We've created that at the National Crime Agency and worked with a number of different organisations, including the NSPCC, to ensure that it's the most up to date and most relevant procedures in there. So if you are an organisation working with young people, there is a potential that you would need to respond to this threat and it's really imperative that you have that and use it.
Danielle:
I would just jump in there. In terms of Report Remove, it's exactly the same. So for young people that want to make a report to Report Remove, and that they know that this image is AI, it doesn't matter. It'll be treated exactly the same.
Producer:
One thing that struck me earlier was the comment around how boys are potentially less likely to come forward if they are affected by online sexual extortion. Danielle, can you talk a bit more about the potential signs that a professional might be able to notice in a child or young person who may be being extorted.
Danielle:
I mean, it is very difficult because a lot of the signs can resemble other signs of different types of abuse. So I think it's really important just to say, staying curious and supportive through whatever you're seeing is really important.
But there might be some changes in behaviour. So young people may appear more withdrawn or worried or more stressed about what's going on. They might be a bit more secretive or guarded about their devices. They might talk about new online friendships or connections that are formed really quickly. They might be spending a lot more time online or you might sense that certain apps or platforms that they're using are becoming a source of anxiety.
The other one is they might be asking for money with little or no explanation of what they need it for or they might trying to obtain funds without asking permission for it. So, taking card details and selling high value items is another one. And I think what we're seeing more often as well is payments in forms of gift cards as well. So they're all different signs. But like I say, I think the main thing is staying curious when exploring this.
Marie:
I think what Danielle said there was really important; and the gift card payment aspect, we definitely see that throughout the abuse that's taking place. Obviously, lots of people are more likely to be caught when going through traditional banking systems, so a way around that is to get young people to buy gift cards and then to send them the codes for those gift cards. So they're still responding to a financial demand in some respects, but it's just different to I guess what people might think.
Yes, sometimes there is money. I guess the biggest message that we're trying to put out again from the National Crime Agency is do not pay. We really understand that that is tricky because when you're in a situation, when the demand's coming through, they're giving individuals very short amounts of time — so there potentially might be a clock ticking and a number of seconds that they would need to respond, otherwise their images are going viral, they would say.
We need to be very clear that if they do pay — and we understand why people would want to, because you want to make it stop. And they start with quite low sums, so £10, for instance. The likelihood is that most teens would have access to — probably not all, but some — that amount. But if you are to do that, then you're showing that you can pay and it will not stop. So by doing that [it], will not make them cut contact and not return. I think that's just the explanation behind that do not pay message.
And as Danielle mentioned earlier, the likelihood of this happening through the night and in a very short time scale is the most likely scenario. So we roughly see, with the whole process happening, as Danielle said, within half an hour to an hour. So much, much quicker than some of the other threats that we see. It's really, really vital that we involve parents and carers in the conversation because they are likely, hopefully, to be the people that are available to them at that time.
We want parents and carers to be equipped that if their child was to come knocking on their door at 3am or come down the stairs as they're watching TV, would they know what to do? The likelihood is that probably not, and that's through no fault of their own. It's that they just haven't necessarily been exposed to what this is and how to respond. So, we've created parents and carers guidance that we've launched alongside a teen campaign last week, that very clearly explains how to have the conversation.
Again, that sounds simple, but really what we're talking about here is crime groups, organised crime groups based abroad, online sex and relationships, sexual curiosity. You know, there's so much involved within this. So some advice on how to that conversation. It's very easy to say to have it, but what does that look like in practice? And then those kind of really clear steps on what to do, which has that don't pay, stop all contact, and to report.
Producer:
On the topic of having those conversations with children, Danielle, I wondered if you have any advice either for professionals or for parents and carers on some things to consider when talking to children about online sexual extortion.
Danielle:
I think, like Marie said, for me the most important thing parents and professionals can do in the first instance is be aware of the issue. Understand how it can present and the impact that it can have on children. Then by having open discussions with young people around these topics, it will help prevent [the issue], but also make it feel safer for young people to come and speak to parents and professionals should it happen.
I think one of the main barriers that we see for a lot of young people that stops them from speaking out is that fear of being blamed. We need to really avoid that victim-blaming language and behaviours to make sure that children feel safe and able to come to get that support.
When we spoke to young people, when we were developing our campaign, they were talking about, you know, sharing nudes has become normalised within young people. And actually, it's really embarrassing for a young person to even approach an adult to talk about sharing a nude, let alone the added layer of extortion and blackmail that comes into that as well.
So, I think it's really having that understanding of the impact on the child and how difficult it is to talk to an adult about what's going on. Really having that empathetic and supportive approach, being informed on the actions that Marie has just talked about and then being able to signpost them into support services, like Childline, so that we can support them at their pace, and also Report Remove in terms of practical steps to get nude images and videos removed off the internet.
Producer:
And you mentioned the Behind the Screen Childline campaign earlier. Please can you tell us a bit more about the resources that form part of that campaign?
Danielle:
Our Behind the Screen campaign has a number of resources. We have a professionals pack. That professional pack looks at sexually coerced extortion, the signs, what to look out for, how to support young people.
There's a range of information on Childline services in terms of our confidentiality policy and what makes us unique, as well as our online resources. We've got a new Childline webpage which is called 'trusting others online', which was developed as part of this campaign, which can be signposted as well to children and young people.
We also have a video that was created, a playful way of highlighting and bringing awareness to fake profiles. It's using male influencers aged — I think they were about 19, so they're in the age group — talking about how to spot fake profiles online.
Producer:
Super. So yeah, lots of resources for professionals out there and we will put links to all of these in the podcast shownotes.
Marie, I know that NCA has also done lots of work recently to help professionals understand and respond to online sexual extortion. Can you tell us more about those resources?
Marie:
Yeah, I think obviously, there's a lot of resources out there, which is great. People will be pleased to know that they complement each other. So when Danielle talks about Report Remove, that's a service that we highly reference throughout our resources as well.
And I guess, just to be clear, we're ensuring that we are putting all of these online campaigns and things that we're doing in slightly different places for young people to see and using different approaches as well. Because as we know, sometimes you need to see things a number of times to engage with that in a number of different ways. We're all very different, we look at things differently, so it's great that there's so much out there.
Last year we launched an alert to schools, the first of its kind. That reached an average of 320,000 to 360,000 professionals, we believe. That's roughly two thirds of all teaching staff. If you've not seen that, then definitely give that a go and there's a parents and carer's letter that's in there that you can send out as well. Within there, there's a link to resources that can be used within the classroom, but we are also developing a new online blackmail resource that we've currently filmed. We're just piloting it and that'll be for launch in September.
The campaign that we have running at the moment is predominantly on Snap and Instagram directly to young teens, male teens. And that resource is — the work that we did with the commissioned research that I mentioned, and also the piloting of that — is just really clear, simple messaging from law enforcement and particularly around that you are not to blame and to seek help message.
Producer:
I think that's a really good place to conclude our discussion for today. You can find links to all the resources we've discussed in this episode as well as further information about online sexual extortion in the podcast shownotes.
You'll also find a link to the free Report Remove tool, which allows young people under 18 in the UK to confidentially report sexual images and videos of themselves in effort to have them removed from the internet.
All that's left for me to do is to say thank you to Marie and Danielle for joining me on the podcast today.
Danielle:
Thank you.
Marie:
Thank you very much.
Producer:
And thank you everyone for listening.
Outro:
Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning podcast. At the time of recording, this episode’s content was up to date but the world of safeguarding and child protection is ever changing – so, if you're looking for the most current safeguarding and child protection training, information or resources, please visit our website for professionals at nspcc.org.uk/learning.
